Clan War thought/idea

 [Eot_]Marvel__


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Edited 3 March 2015 - 8:11 pm by [Eot_]Marvel__
I cant speak for aoc cs wars on zone but ive seen plenty of wars where 1v1s counted in cs (im struggling to think of a single war on zone when they didnt tbh). They count in rm/dm nowdays too and always did. But as i was saying its clearly not the most important factor to determine a clan, but it can still be used as a way to determine a clans ability. Thats why i was suggesting using it like they do in war is coming tourney where you have to win a set of 2v2s/1v1s for it to count as a point. I do agree with rix though on the point of not too many, thats why i would maybe only have one round of 1v1s and one round of 2v2s. I would maybe suggest in the 1v1s that different players have to be used for each game like is done in wic
Please name all these wars where 1v1 happened, ONLY time i remember 1v1s happening were in Emps wars waaaay back in like 2002, not a single other clan i can remember did 1v1s in aok lol (at least no in wars that finished). It certainly wasn't 'common', it didnt happen in any of the wars i was in, and I3acI didn't war so I doubt it cant have happened in any wars you were in since you've been in I3acI since the year 0 lol.

Anyway my 2 cents is a few 2v2s have a place, and 3v3s and 4v4s, really i don't think 1v1s have a place in clan wars, especially not in CS
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 [_A]Faravahar


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Posted 3 March 2015 - 7:57 pm
Every single clan war in AoK on Zone had 1v1's, it happened less in AoC but 2v2 maps were certainly not disallowed in wars.
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 [Eot_]Marvel__


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Edited 3 March 2015 - 8:30 pm by [Eot_]Marvel__
Every single clan war in AoK on Zone had 1v1's, it happened less in AoC but 2v2 maps were certainly not disallowed in wars.
Please name one then? If every single one had them you can surely remember one. I was involved in at least 4-5 clan wars and can't remember ne that had 1v1's unless my memory is ****ing terrible (but my memory is generally pretty good so i doubt it, Nick will remember too). I remember a bunch of 2v2s, but never 1v1s. Not saying they NEVER happened, but they definitely weren't that common, at all.

WOC vs Fea12, which im 100% sure had no 1v1s
IzlF vs wG (your clan so you should remember this), was only about 3-4 games but had no 1v1s
elementalz vs legend had no 1v1s
sf vs woc had no 1v1s

jerk vs holy (didnt play in this but remember it and was ended after 3 maps, but was all 2v2+)

these are the clan wars i played in off the top of my head and none had 1v1s.

But really clan wars were different in aok so it's not really smart to compare them, people would just ask for games and it wouldn't be as organized as aoc, it would just be players logging on playing any clan members in 2v2s and ****.


I do think some (but not many, just a couple t increase map diversity) 2v2s should be allowed though as i've said.
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 [Eot_]Polaris_


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Posted 3 March 2015 - 8:23 pm
Every single clan war in AoK on Zone had 1v1's, it happened less in AoC but 2v2 maps were certainly not disallowed in wars.
when you say it happened less in AoC... you mean it never happened... like as in not one single war in aoc existance did it happen as in 0 times.

and the clans who wanted 2v2 were for cheap wins.. that was mainly what all wars were for back then.. people wanted to pick their 3 home maps vs the other teams 3.. so it was always or almost always 3 guaranteed wins. Times change... and theres much less wars now and people want to see quality matchups not one sided games.
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 [I3acI]_Army1_


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Edited 3 March 2015 - 8:34 pm by [I3acI]_Army1_
I wasnt in bad from the start i joined 2003 but yeah only been in 1 clan so i guess 0 is fair enough lol. We only done one war during my time before we decided not to do any when we beat skorch 10-1 in 2004 i think it was when they had everybody smurf for them, woodie lost a 1v1 ss to give them 1 lol. So thats one war. Another war which is probably the last big aok cs war on zone was tog v nbk when half the games where 1v1 lol, i can give u links to wars if u dont believe me or if youve just forgotten? But other wars include tog v uib; xin v sx; woc v nf; xr v woc; dvt v woc; theonly v woc; holy v fear etc..... which where all after emp days, pretty sure you where in woc during those wars? though dont think u played cant remember. I genuinely cant remember one single war in aok when there was no 1v1s, im sure there might of been some i just dont remember them. It was very much common practice for 1v1s to be allowed in wars in aok as a fact i remember loads of them and quite a few are still on old forums.

In aok most wars where very disorganised though with alot of games being played with whoever was on when a war was started, theyre alot more organised in aoc im sure you would agree on that lol.


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 [Eot_]Marvel__


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Edited 3 March 2015 - 8:42 pm by [Eot_]Marvel__
I wasnt in bad from the start i joined 2003 but yeah only been in 1 clan so i guess 0 is fair enough lol. We only done one war during my time before we decided not to do any when we beat skorch 10-1 in 2004 i think it was when they had everybody smurf for them, woodie lost a 1v1 ss to give them 1 lol. So thats one war. Another war which is probably the last big aok cs war on zone was tog v nbk when half the games where 1v1 lol, i can give u links to wars if u dont believe me or if youve just forgotten? But other wars include tog v uib; xin v sx; woc v nf; xr v woc; dvt v woc; theonly v woc etc..... which where all after emp days, pretty sure you where in woc during those wars? though dont think u played cant remember. I genuinely cant remember one single war in aok when there was no 1v1s, im sure there might of been some i just dont remember them. It was very much common practice for 1v1s to be allowed in wars in aok as a fact i remember loads of them and quite a few are still on old forums.

In aok most wars where very disorganised though with alot of games being played with whoever was on when a war was started, theyre alot more organised in aoc im sure you would agree on that lol.
hmm i can vaguely remember tog vs nbk mainly due to drama related to duke and his hacks lol, and i remember some WOC wars (WOC vs SF in particular) where people asked for 1v1s but they were never played. I can also remember a bunch of wars after zone without 1v1s so I think you saying every war is highly exagerrated, I know none of the IzlF wars had 1v1s as I played in them all and remember them strongly, and the Fea12 vs WOC war (after Fea12 merged with Lethal) had no 1v1s. But yes, I do agree with that last statement for sure, they were very disorganized and were just played with whoever was online, not necessarily each clans best lineups. 90% of wars i remember also ended up crashing due to drama with scoring etc and what games 'count' towards wars etc lol. Either way I don't really think aok wars are fair to compare cos of the format, and they almost never ended due to drama lol. Hard to remember all this stuff though as I guess it was 9+ years ago now.

Anyway, back on topic, I would propose that for something like this to be done it needs to be done gradually. I am very much against 1v1s in clan wars, but 2v2s/3v3s i see the value in. I think the best way to move towards this is gradually, maybe slowly introducing a couple of 3v3's to future clan wars, then adding maybe a 2v2.
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 [ViCiouS]TheAussieOne


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Posted 3 March 2015 - 8:42 pm
I'm all for the 1v1/2v2/3v3/4v4 setup. Can't see it happening. But the WiC is so much more interesting changing the dynamic with 2v2 DM and 1v1 sets.
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 [_A]Faravahar


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Edited 3 March 2015 - 8:46 pm by [_A]Faravahar
All the AoK clan wars I ever played in there were 1v1 games involved, you know I don't remember the clan names or names of players from back then so I can't name them.
AoK wars were whatever settings both teams agreed on, if the other team didn't want to play a map or setting then it wasn't played.
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 [I3acI]_Army1_


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Edited 3 March 2015 - 9:14 pm by [I3acI]_Army1_
Im just saying i dont remember any that didnt have 1v1s, im sure there might of been some like for example the sf v woc war that u mention, which i dont remember lol. If this is the sf v woc war it had 1v1s [You must login to view link] But for sure 1v1s where diffently used in most, i had a quick scan on vgaming to refresh my memory in some lol. We are talking around 10 years ago (where did all that time go ffs) so i can see why memory might be a bit hazy. But yeah loads of wars crashed due to drama which basically came down to how disorganised they where and people arguing which games counted etc.. But yeah we are going off topic here lol

I just think using the system they use in wic would be a fun way to do it and would display more of an overall skill set of a clan. I also think using that system would be a more attractive way to any spectator and would bring something fresh to the table for cs wars
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 [Eot_]Polaris_


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Edited 3 March 2015 - 9:42 pm by [Eot_]Polaris_
I strongly disagree with anything besides 4v4s being in wars and I will stand by that as I always have. I also feel that if the old LC didnt have the best SS team at the time they would be wanting to play 2v2 SS in a war... wars back on zone were all about getting free wins as you can and then having a decider you feel you can pretty much guarantee a win.. Majority of the old schoolers felt they were gods at smosh tg so majority didnt mind smosh as a decider. I can speak out of personal experience from the zone if you spoke out against LCs picks they would simply say they wouldnt war.. so there as no way around playing them in their stacked maps + smosh decider.

xl (spy & Spade) had a long standing rivalry with ( villz/kryptz/goth1 ) from mVz on who were the better dome players and had a better dome team.. when they included dome in that war it was strictly to prove a point and see who was the better team.

I dont really care what you guys say about the 1v1 aspect... clan wars are between teams of people vs teams of people.. not an individual player beating another in a map.. challenge all of voobly to bo's and prove you are the best that way if you want to do 1v1s so badly.. and the only one thats really done that so far is damian.
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 [XceL]Krasic_


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Posted 3 March 2015 - 11:05 pm
XceL would be interested if there any mixed 1v1/2v2/3v3/4v4 maps (some 4v4 maps can be played with less players) included in war.
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 __BillaBamZilla


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Posted 4 March 2015 - 12:30 am
Id like to just say 1v1's only mattered when coming to the top 10 lists (if anyone remembers those dam things) if you had a member on that top 10 list your clan owned that map if they were better than other clans members on that list.

Thats an opinion, slightly somewhat out of order. But you get my drift, floating simply down a peaceful river.
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 [ViCiouS]TheAussieOne


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Posted 4 March 2015 - 1:41 am
You'd have at least 3 players from your team playing 1v1 sets though. Which ever side wins at least 2/3 sets wins the 1v1 stakes. That encompasses three players from your clan. Heck you could make it 5 players, as long as there's an odd number of sets.

In 2v2 you can have two sets of 2v2s going. If each team wins 1 set, the two winning teams play-off to decide it.

I prefer 3v3 over 4v4 but that's only because of personal preference.

I don't think following what happened on Zone is really of any benefit for us as gamers in 2015 CS. If we look back honestly at Zone, it was filled with hackers, people forming Smurf clans to war and in hindsight stupid biased war formats because most players were teenage kids. Why do we really want to replicate how stuff was done on Zone... And a lot of us are guilty for continuing the never ending cycle of **** talk which in all honestly degrades CS and reduces the amount of competitive games, since no one wants to lose to people they **** talk against.

Zone had awesome memories and we should leave it at that. If we honestly want clans gaming against each other besides an occasional war every year or two, as well as expand the number of competitive clans playing then we have to do stuff differently since Voobly is a different system from Zone. I hate the prospect of CBA or Hero becoming involved in wars, but realistically in this age they are somewhat competitive maps and played so much.

We as a community can create something in CS we have longed for when we look at how well RM functions with tournaments. With the success of Random League blooding new players into maps outside of the CB genre, we would be stupid to think conducting the old Zone mentality of doing a bo7/9 war where 99% is **** talk and then the war likely falls a part anyway (vicious, eot, 7th and lc are all guilty of this from the past).

too long; didn't read - I think a 1v1/2v2/3v3 setup with an official Voobly map list non-negotiable that rotates 'wars' between registered clans in the competition will do wonders for CS. We maintain expert activity (whether it be players remaining active, rotating players who takes breaks or introducing new players to the scene). We create an accurate and competitive format for CS clans - something wars and clan ladders have never truly accomplished but always intended to achieve. We make it more manageable than a bo9 4v4 format which can take half a day and clans usually require at least 5-6 players for to be competitive since a 1v1/2v2/3v3 format can be done with 3 players and performed over than span of a month. Most importantly we give Voobly streamers regular events to showcase CS - and exposure is what CS needs to survive for the longer term in a decent state.

I love ranting about improving CS more than a flame war.
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 [I3acI]_Army1_


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Edited 4 March 2015 - 6:21 am by [I3acI]_Army1_
Well said. I would propose something like this held over 9 rounds:

A CBA/CBA Hero round - 1 point
Civs can be agreed and if not 4v4 mirror civs are used

A 1v1 set using a bo5 set up - 1 point
Each team gets to pick 2 maps each and each team has one veto to use where they can decide if they dont want to play a certain map. In such a case the other team muct choose another map. The decider can be agreed but if not then we go 1v1 random ladder mirror. Note in the 1v1 sets a different player must be used apart from in the decider for home selections and the same player cant play both away selections. Though someone from a home selection choice can play 1 away map if done in a bo5 format

A 2v2 set up using a bo3 set up - 1 point
Each team gets to pick a 2v2 set up with each team also having one veto each where they can decide if they want to play a certain map and the other team has to select another 2v2. The decider can be agreed if not then we go 2v2 random ladder mirror

6 rounds of a 4v4 or 3v3 set up - 6 points to play for
Each team can pick any 3 set ups as their home settings be it euro, bloods, cbs, other maps like lustful and art of war with each team also having one veto of a map or setting they dont want to play and the other team has to pick another map/setting. Also if its cba or cba hero used from the cb round then it cant be picked again but the other variation can be selected

To start with i would propose allowing the selection of any fair map that isnt bugged and allowing a veto process to be put in place as mentioned above to try and get the ball rolling to try and avoid any initial disagreements. Though having a pre determined selection of maps to choose from that arent negotiable and rotated could work also for sure
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 [Eot_]Marvel__


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Edited 4 March 2015 - 6:37 am by [Eot_]Marvel__
In my opinion, I don't think this format is suited to clan wars at all. Clans play different things and will decide clan wars amongst themselves that suit them (eg blood wars etc), I think this sort of format is more suited to a kind of clan league or ladder, which is how it is in RM. There is a large difference between a clan league and a clan war, and the clans don't really 'war' in RM.


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